Sackville town councillor Bruce Phinney was born in Sackville into a military family. They lived in Germany and Nova Scotia before settling in Oromocto in 1962. After returning to Sackville in 1977, he began a career spanning four decades in facilities management at Mount Allison University.
Listen to CHMA’s Meet The Candidates interview with Bruce Phinney, which took place at CHMA studios on November 15, 2022.
Phinney is running for Ward 3, where residents will elect four councillors from a pool of nine candidates, including Phinney, Michael Tower, Allison Butcher, Virgil Hammock, Alice Cotton, Sahitya Pendurthi, Josh Goguen, Charles Harvey, and Sana Mohammed. All candidates have interviews on CHMA, except for Charles Harvey who declined, and Sana Mohammed, who hasn’t responded to an interview request.
CHMA is compiling all its election coverage in one place, for your convenience. For more candidate interviews and other local elections coverage, click here.
TRANSCRIPT, Bruce Phinney November 15, 2022
CHMA: Bruce Phinney, thank you so much for joining us today.
Bruce Phinney: My pleasure, Erica.
CHMA: For those who might not already know you, tell us a bit about yourself.
Bruce Phinney: I was born in Sackville in 1955. That makes me 67. I grew up in Oromocto—my father was in the military. Then I moved here to Sackville in 1977, and in 1978, I started working for [Mount Allison University]. I worked for the University for 42 and a half years. I retired approximately a little over two years ago. It’s been fun. I’ve done a lot of different jobs here on campus.
Like I have said a few times, I have a marketing diploma from the community college, NBCC; I have a sales rep and marketing course; I have a few credits left to finish in order to finish my marketing degree from here at Mount Allison University, which I plan on finishing over the next few years.
I just love Sackville. All my relations are here; I have six generations here. It’s been fun working at the University. It was fun. There’s been times where it’s been very trying. But I always say, my philosophy is that it’s never the place that one works that is the problem—it’s the people that are in charge. And over 42 and a half years, I’ve seen a lot of different people come and go.
Overall, I’m very analytical. I think intensely all the time. For instance, a question came up last night about the amount of money being paid. Well, I know we haven’t had a raise in almost 18 years, and we’re only getting 90% of the CPI. I think one year I got $4.13 for a raise. So, it’s not the money one does it for but one’s time is worth raises, and we should indeed be compensated for what we do. Someone said, “Well, maybe we could base the pay based on exactly how many hours do you think you work.” I work 365 days, seven days a week, 24 hours a day. My mind is always working on what’s going on. I’m always running into people. I’m always talking to them. They’re calling me, they’re asking me questions. So, you can’t turn around and develop a pay scale on that factor.
Overall, like I said, I think deeply about issues that come up. I analyze them. Whatever we’re working on, I look at the facts: do we have the money? Can we afford it? Do we need to do it now? Or can we put it off and a little while later, when maybe it’s probably the best time to turn around to do something? Sometimes, I’ve found that actually we were doing things that were way ahead when we didn’t really need to do it. When there are other issues that we need to deal with.
So, myself, I’m just easygoing, happy go lucky. And I take this job very seriously. I’ve been doing it since 2004. I got elected way back then. It’s been fun and at times, it’s been trying. But overall, I’m a fighter from way back, and I will continue to forge forward, and I stand up for the people—I will not back down.
I know a lot of the people in the government, provincial and federally. And I also know a lot of people at the [Union of the Municipalities of New Brunswick], which I’ve made a lot of friends with, and throughout the province and across Canada, through the municipalities. It’s been wonderful, when we go to the [Union of the Municipalities of New Brunswick], we get a chance to talk to the other people within just the province alone. How else would we know what they’re doing? We just don’t know unless we actually get a chance to talk to them. That’s why last night I said, “Well, it would be great if we can reach out on economic development and sustainability.” Why reinvent the wheel? The thing is there may be some things they are doing in the other municipalities throughout the province, but also across Canada. So why can’t we tap into those resources? People keep saying we should tap into the resources of Mount A. Well, we shouldn’t limit ourselves to just here. We need to turn around and really have an open mind and seek the information, especially when we—the Council presently—has gotten to know people and talk to the people within the other municipalities to see exactly what they’re doing.
That’s pretty much me, I guess. I’m just a down to earth kind of guy.
CHMA: You mentioned you’ve been on council for many years now. What factored into your decision to run again for this new Tantramar council?
Bruce Phinney: To me, this is going to be a challenge and I love challenges. The thing is, this stems from back when I first started when they talked about the outlying areas or LSDs—local service districts, as they’re called—are not being represented the way they need to be because of the fact you know, “oh, well, they’re living outside, they don’t pay the same amount of taxes.” But they do use a lot of resources from the Town, like they still get fire protection, they get police protection, and I’m sure there’s other things that I can’t think of at the moment, Erica. But a lot of people have moved to the LSDs so they could get away from paying the amount of taxes that you pay within the town. It’s always been said that they need to pay a little bit more to make up for what they come in and use within the community as a whole. It’s just common sense that when you have something, you still have to have operations and maintenance. It’d be the same as your home: you can’t buy a home and then turn around and say, I’m not going to do anything on it for 20 years. I don’t know what kind of house you would have at the end of 20 years.
It’s a challenge. It’s going to be interesting. I know, for instance, Daniel Allain, I’ve known him for a long time; I knew him when he was a councillor for the city of Dieppe. And I know a lot of the other ministers—Bruce Fitch, I remember when he was a student here at Mount A. We had a few beers together when I used to drink at the pub over the years. And I’ve gotten to know a lot of the other people within the governments as well—Liberal, Conservative, NDP, etc.
I just love doing this job because it’s for the good of everybody. This is going to be, like I said, a challenge because of the fact that there are so many issues at the present time that we’re going to be limited, but we still need to try and find a way of doing things.
CHMA: Let’s talk about some of those issues. If you’re elected, what do you think are going to be some of the key ones that you’re bringing forward to the table? Or that you’re hoping to really weigh in on?
Bruce Phinney: Well, first of all, we need to turn around and make a relationship with all the outlying areas. Whoever gets elected within the different five wards is going to have to educate each other on exactly what’s needed within the other wards. Like I said, I’ve lived here since 1977. I know people in Dorchester, I know people in Point de Bute, I know the outlying areas of Wood Point and British Settlement. But I don’t know what they need. I don’t know some of the issues that they have. So, I’m going to have to be educated from those people from those areas. It shouldn’t take long.
Of course, everybody is talking right now with the economy the way it is, how are we going to help those who are having a hard time making ends meet? I’ve always said, those who are fortunate enough to have money, they’re lucky. I never worry about them. I don’t exclude them, but I never worry about them, because they’re going to find a financial position to be able to look after themselves. I always worry about the people that are indeed having a hard time making ends meet. We have an issue of housing, how we’re going to do that—that’s going to be a good question.
CHMA: I have housing on my list to specifically ask about just because I’m wondering whether you think the municipality should be doing something to address the shortage and this crisis. And if so, what kind of things should the municipality be doing?
Bruce Phinney: Well, that’s a good question, Erica. And to be honest with you, I’m not sure. One thing that I think I would have to really turn around and do is reach out to [Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation] to see what they’re doing. And also reach out to the other municipalities. I’m a firm believer in teamwork. I just believe in it. Why re-invent the wheel? It saves your money and the money you saved, you can put it into the project that you’re actually looking at. See what they’re doing in other areas and see what we can do.
I worked on a project for three years with a group of people in this town, and it had to do with affordable housing and everything. We just about had everything in place and then the government—the provincial government—pulled the rug right out from under our feet. They took away the money that we were looking for in order to put this in place. It had to do with a project very similar to the co-op housing project we have here in town. We were actually hoping to extend housing in that area. And for three years, we worked on it. Bill Swift, God rest his soul. He’s gone. He used to be a charge of Moneris, here in town. Merrill Fullerton was on the board and so was Doug Oulton. We had a lot of very good people. And we were so disappointed. We even had people from some company that were part of building and had connections with developers and stuff. Like I said, we were just about ready to turn around and implement what we wanted to do and as I said, the money was pulled right out from under us.
So, we’re going to have to find a way of doing it. I don’t know what the answer is. I’m not a magician. But I do know that we need to talk to some of the other municipalities and see what we can do about it. Because it’s an issue that needs to be addressed. There’s no doubt.
Recently, I’ve heard that there are companies that are buying apartment buildings from some of the present owners. What’s it called…renoviction, or something like that. That concerns me, it really does. I have a friend that is part of that. I don’t blame them; he has to have a job so, he’s working on renovations. But how do we get through to the company owners to help us turn around and put in place what’s needed? I don’t know what their needs are; is there some way we can help them? It’s been said that, actually, what they’re doing is they’re just gouging people as matter of fact. I need to look at the whole picture. I don’t know the whole situation just here in Sackville. But the government hasn’t been overly helpful, either because they’re not putting any caps on rent or anything. So, we need to talk to the government as well and see exactly what we can do and what maybe they may be able to bring into the picture, and as well as the federal people. It’s going to be a challenge. But it’s a challenge I’m looking forward to.
CHMA: Another thing we’ve heard about from readers and listeners is that transparency is a key issue. Now, obviously, we didn’t define that, and different people mean different things by that. What does it mean to you? What should this new Town do differently if anything regarding openness and transparency?
Bruce Phinney: I’m a firm believer that taxpayers are my boss. They have a right to know how much money [we’re spending] or what we’re doing. I’ve found over the past years that there are too many in-camera meetings—we’ve got to stop that. There are certain things we will not be able to tell; they could be of legal or land or whatever. But there may be a way of getting around and letting people know exactly what the cost is and what the projects are. And we need to get the government on board. For some reason, this province, it’s all about, “oh, you can’t tell anybody anything. It’s the Right to Privacy Act.” I think it’s terrible. It’s the worst province across Canada, from what I’m gathering. You as a journalist, Erica, have run into that. You and Bruce Wark both have been told, “Oh, no, you can’t have that, you can’t know this.” It’s the people’s money. They need to be made aware of exactly what is going on. If I’m telling you who I am, what secrets would I want to hold from you? I don’t know.
To me, we need to be more open because it’s been terrible over the last couple of terms, and we need to change that. The reports that we got, those need to be made available as far as I’m concerned—to a certain extent. And that can be handled by asking those who were interviewed, for instance, in the fire department—the Montana report—ask them if they have a problem with people reading exactly what they said. I’ve already talked to a lot of them, and they said no, and they even said, “I don’t understand why you as a councillor did not get to read that report.” It’s the same thing as the management report. As I said in conversation with you before we started, how in the world am I supposed to know if there’s problems within the fire department if I don’t know what they are, and I can’t read them? How am I supposed to know if we’ve got the people in the management positions if I can’t read exactly what those people who work under the managers are going through and what’s happening?
We’ve got to turn around and just make things more readily available. What is there to hide? I don’t know what it is. Maybe [they] don’t want people to know exactly what they are doing behind closed doors. I’m going to be honest, it’s a matter of fact, over the last number of years, I’ve found that there were times that I—even as a councillor—didn’t seem to be privy to certain information. And I would find out maybe in conversation with another councillor or someone in the public seemed to find out before I did what was going on. To me, there’s nothing to hide. We need to turn around and make it more available for people.
We’re limited. I mean, thank God, we have you. And thank God, we have Bruce Wark. We don’t have the [Sackville Tribune] anymore, which everybody used to turn around and actually read. As I said, last night, there’s a lot of seniors in this town, and they don’t know how to use a computer or they don’t have a computer, they’re not interested in a computer. They like reading the newspaper. There’s a number of people in this town that have no idea what’s happening because they don’t have the paper anymore. They don’t have computers, and they don’t know how to go online. And people that are really good with computers, I call them very tech savvy. Even myself, I’m not very tech savvy, but I can get around. But we need to find a way to make things more readily available so people will have an idea of what is happening. I’m open to opening up everything except for the things that we probably, by law, cannot do. But other than that, I don’t see a reason why we can’t just tell everybody what’s going on.
CHMA: Let’s talk a bit about amalgamation. Everyone’s favorite topic. That’s the reason we’re having this election. Can you give me your best and worst? What’s something that you’re excited about under this new Tantramar municipality, what’s something you think is going to be a big challenge, maybe something you’re less excited about? Give me your best and worst there.
Bruce Phinney: I think Erica, probably the biggest challenge is going to be alleviating the fears of the people within the different, what I will call, entities—Dorchester, Point de Bute, the LSDs. They feel like they’re going to lose their identity. We need to turn around and assure them that that’s not going to happen. People from Dorchester who are going to be elected—either Robert Corkerton or Debbie Wiggins-Colwell—will tell me what it is that’s needed, and what their issues and problems are. Then, of course, it’ll happen within Rockport, Point de Bute, etc. It’s going to be difficult to just alleviate them. And I think we can do it very quickly, I really do.
The thing is, trying to get people to realize what’s happening is going to be in the best interest, for instance, I’ve already been told this and have realized that the outlying areas, their tax rate will go up some, although not to the point that it’s going to be equivalent to the town. It will compensate for the services they receive from within just Sackville, like it used to be. We’re going to have to find a way of putting the budget so that it’s inclusive for everybody. That’s going to be a challenge. There’s no doubt. Limited resources, money wise, we have so many issues that we need to work on. But I think we can do it, to be honest with you. To me, I don’t know if you’d call that a negative… I think maybe I might consider it a positive because it’s going to be interesting to educate people, even myself and whoever if I’m hopefully get elected to even find out what is going on in these other areas. So, I will know the issues and then we need to look at them and see how we can deal with it. The money is always a factor. That’s a given. I mean we do that in our own personal lives and our own budgets. We’re going to have to do it for the sake of everybody within this whole new Tantramar entity.
The real negative. I don’t know…it’s happening. So regardless of the fact that actually, we don’t like it and there are many that don’t. Because it’s like, “oh my gosh, we’re Sackville, we just need to worry about Sackville.” Well, to me, as I said, I’ve been in here since elected since 2004. And I’ve seen and talked to many of the people who live in those areas outside the LSD, and they say, “we don’t get any representation from the government, we’re just excluded.” They have a representative, but I don’t know what the gentleman does, or what their issues are. So, this way, it’s going to be a good thing, because now they’re going to have a voice. And we will have to listen to them. We need to listen to them to find out exactly what their issues are, and what we can do for them for the good of everybody. And I truly believe that real teamwork is what’s going to take.
CHMA: It sounds like, you think it’s going to be a challenge but ultimately, if we succeed, it could be quite good for everybody.
Bruce Phinney: It will be a plus for everybody, all the way around. I think it’s long overdue. For those who don’t know where this whole amalgamation idea came from, it came from the Jean Guy Report, which was in 2008. I haven’t read it all, but there were some good things in it for the amalgamation idea and there were some bad things, I mean, underrepresented people, not paying enough taxes. There was one group or municipality that I’m aware of, and it’s probably been at least 15 years, that the outlying areas or LSD, shall we say, spoke with the municipality and they came to an agreement. They actually even admitted, we do not pay our fair share of taxes to help offset the costs that we are incurring upon the municipality by coming in and using the resources. If I remember correctly, I think it was Grand-Bay Westfield, down that area. And it’s worked out. They just realized and they were more than willing to turn around and have their taxes upped a little bit. And it’s been working from what I gather.
So, if we can turn around and get to that agreement. I don’t know if we’re going to set the rate, or whether the government will set the rate, but the government hasn’t really been very open or telling us exactly what’s going on. That’s another challenge: we’re really going to have to make them seem weak, we’re not going to know exactly what we can do, until we hear exactly what the government wants us to do, or it’s going to allow us to do and then we’re going to have to turn around and find the resources in order to do it. This is where I truly believe we need to turn around and reach out to everybody. Because the same problems are going to exist throughout the province, throughout the Atlantic provinces, throughout Canada. We need to work together in order to try and find a solution for the good of everybody. So, it’s going to be interesting, and that’s why I said it’s going to be a real challenge. But I love challenges—I really do.
CHMA: Alright. Well, Bruce, is there anything else you’d like people in in Ward 3, in particular, where you’re running to know about you or about your issues?
Bruce Phinney: There’s a lot of people that know me, and I don’t know them. How, I don’t know. I guess because I’ve been in the news a lot lately. Some people say that’s good. Some people say bad. The other thing is, I’m a firm believer that I just stand up. I was brought up to believe that everybody deserves to be spoken for; I’m not for this group or that group. It’s everybody because everybody—it’s their tax dollars. It’s paying for things. I’m a firm believer in that we’ll all stand up and fight with anybody. And I don’t mean fight fight. I mean, stand up for what’s right. I was brought up—like I was saying, it’s a matter of fact—my parents taught me to stand up for what I believe in, to speak my mind. But if I find out that I’m wrong, to be man enough to turn around and admit it. And I don’t have a problem doing that—I live in my life like that every day.
I have a philosophy I started 15 to 20 years ago that I live by. I love everybody in the world. I don’t necessarily like everybody, and some of them are my relatives. I’ve said that to them. “What you don’t like me?” [they say] and I say, “no, I’ll always love you and always have your back but no.” These parents say the same thing to the kids, and I don’t have any children. But I’ve been around long enough to watch and see what’s going on. And I remember my parents saying that to me, too. Sometimes, I’ll always love you. But I don’t necessarily like you at times.
And I just want to work for the people. I love this job. Sometimes it’s so thankless. But then when someone walks up and says, “Thank you…” I don’t know what it is—it’s a feeling of euphoria that comes over, you just say, “Wow.” Every time you might hear that from someone, that just makes you feel so good. Is it frustrating? Is it hard? Yes, it is. It can be. But I turned around and realized that life is not easy. We have to deal with things, whether we like them or not. But there’s also that old saying: deal with the things you have control over. And then find ways of dealing with things that you don’t. Then as I get older, Erica, I’m becoming a little more complacent. But when I have to come out of my shell, and I keep telling everybody, I was shy, but I just speak up and speak out when I feel it’s the right time. I’ve watched people who are very, very good at being communicators. And I’m not very eloquent because I’m blunt, to tell you the truth. I’m hoping that actually, I can take some courses that may help. But why are you trying to sugarcoat things? Just speak bluntly and honestly with people and they will understand. People don’t want this running around with words. Answer the question, don’t beat around the bush, call it like it is, and then turn around and deal with the issue if there’s a real problem.
But I love this job. That’s why I started in 2004. I don’t represent this group or that group, or I wouldn’t give favoritism to anybody. I don’t believe in that. Because to me, for instance, in the hiring process, when we hire someone, we need to hire the best person for the job, not my friend, not someone who we think might work. We need to hire the right people for the job so we can get these problems and find a resolution to them sooner than later. And I think if we have the right people in place, we can do that. I really do.
So, I’m hoping that everybody sees what most people know about me. They’ve known me for years. They know I tell it like it is. And I’m honest, I can’t lie. You can see it in my eyes, you can see it on my face. My parents always said, “Don’t lie to us” and my father told me that when I was just a little boy, “don’t ever lie to me, or I’ll never support you.” And so, I’ve learned from the beginning. And if you’ve made a mistake, be man enough or woman enough to turn around and admit it. If you can’t do that, then how are you going to learn? I just don’t get that. It’s so much easier just to say yep, I made a mistake. And now let’s see what we can do to correct and move forward and for the good of everybody. That’s what I believe in. So, I’m hoping that people will come out and vote for me again. Like I said, I love this job, and I will work for you. I worked, like I said 24/7, 365, and I’m available phone, person, whatever you want to do, send me an email. And I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. And I love to talk to people. Sometimes my mom said I used to talk too much.
So, I guess that’s about it. Erica. I just enjoy this job so much even though it’s sometimes thankless. But when I first started, I was in the boardroom of the old Town Hall. There were many, many nights that I was in there all night. And I would probably leave about 6:30 in the morning, go home and change and then I’d come to work here for eight o’clock at night. Because I read everything, and I was so intense. I’m finding out that I ended up almost burning myself out because I was on this committee, that committee, this board, that board and so I backed off a little bit because I felt that being on a lot of them was not productive. I wasn’t giving the time required in order to really do something well. And so therefore I backed off and so I will turn around and focus on certain things. But I will be a part or at least informed about what what’s going on so we can see what’s happening. And I’m really looking forward to this because, like I said, this is going to be a challenge. But this is what the government’s going to do and we need to show them, okay you’re forcing this on us, we’re gonna show you exactly what we can do to make it better for everybody and so I’m hoping everybody will vote for me on the 28th. Thank you.
CHMA: Alright, many thanks Bruce.
Bruce Phinney: Well, you’re very welcome, Erica. It’s been a pleasure.
